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TNR Dispute

  • 1.  TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-10-2024 12:35 PM

    Wondering if anyone else has run into this issue? My org funds spay-neuter expenses for both owned pets and TNR-that is ALL we do. I am now getting emails from a woman who claims one of the trappers we assist with funding is "taking" her cats, sending them to "rescues", etc. without her permission. I have NOT engaged with the complainant; I have informed her we assist with spay-neuter costs only-we do not get into disputes between individuals. I have also  suggested she contact animal control with any problems she may feel she has.

    Is this the best way to handle this sort of conflict?


    #CommunityCatManagement

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    L.A Nesbitt
    President
    Pets In Need Action League
    Casa Grande, AZ 85130
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  • 2.  RE: TNR Dispute

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 06-10-2024 02:40 PM
    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

    I'd start with finding out if your trapping partner is actually stealing people's cats. That's not a person you want to be associated with. Either they need to stop taking people's pets or you cut ties. This is one of the big reasons animal welfare and TNR in particular get a bad name some communities. 


    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-11-2024 12:09 PM

    Agreed. One way or another, your name has been brought into it and if you are funding this trapper's TNR efforts, you are technically aiding the situation. You don't want to end up influencing outdoor cat caretakers in your area so they are against TNR! I do think it's your place to talk to the trapper and se what's going on.



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    Erin Dams
    Community Relations Coordinator
    Roanoke Valley SPCA
    Roanoke VA
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-11-2024 05:28 PM

    Apparently I now find that the complainant is a hoarder that is known to Animal Control. (Besides-how does  one "steal" cats that are outside, unchipped and bearing no ID, collar, etc.?) Cats are also considered free roaming in the state.  



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    L.A Nesbitt
    President
    Pets In Need Action League
    Casa Grande, AZ 85130
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-12-2024 09:14 AM

    I see your later message about this being a hoarding situation, but I would still like to reply on this thread.   I think it is a real concern if there are people trapping cats to take into rescue if they are healthy community cats.  They are friendly for a reason... someone loves and cares for them.  If they are unsocialized, they certainly do not need to be taken into rescue.  Encourage the trappers you support to do due diligence in best practices for TNR and that means not removing cats from the environment that they thrive and are familiar with unless there is an EXTREME situation... and those should be few and far between.  I love the Hannah Shaw video about "Feral Cats and TNR"  Here's the link:       Why are some cats FERAL?



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    Samantha Polen
    Executive Director
    T-Town TNR, Inc.
    Tulsa OK
    https://www.ttowntnr.com/
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-13-2024 08:09 AM

    The cats in question have been returned when feasible to do so; this particular situation is known to AC , apparently.  But I do have to wonder how trappers are supposed to ID "someone's cat" that's allowed to roam versus a community/feral cat if there is no ear tip, collar, tag or chip? We are DROWNING in "community" cats out here and our shelters are euthanizing for space alone...



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    L.A Nesbitt
    President
    Pets In Need Action League
    Casa Grande, AZ 85130
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-14-2024 08:57 AM

    Cats should not be taken to the shelter.  That's why it is called Trap-Neuter-Return.  If the cat is healthy and outside and gets trapped... sterilize and return it.  Even if it is owned, it might not get claimed before it is too late.  And another cat may die to make room for it.



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    Samantha Polen
    Executive Director
    T-Town TNR, Inc.
    Tulsa OK
    https://www.ttowntnr.com/
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 24 days ago

    In my area, cats roaming outdoors without identification are considered to be owned by the community.  If there is no known owner and no identification, friendly community cats can absolutely be taken into rescues.

    I disagree with others that all community cats should stay outside. Many friendly indoor cats are abandoned outside and many do not fair well. We work with community members and take in friendly community cats into our rescue with permission of their caretakers who often want them to have a better life in a loving home.

    We have discussed situations like this with our Animal Care and Control department as well. If an owner does come forward, however, legally the animal must be returned to them. In your case, I would contact Animal Control to get involved since it is a hoarding situation and you have concerns about the well-being of the cat. 



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    Amanda Gray
    Vice President
    Operation Liberation
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-12-2024 05:44 AM

    Hi Lynda;

          As an organization my general recommendation would be to direct a statement of due diligence for your organization before a TNR event commences.  Your TNR volunteer s should: 

             -Notify the neighborhood of a TNR effort. 

            -Any cat that is thought to be owned in the community is recommended to have a paper collar put on and worn for 2 weeks to confirm ownership status.

           -I would offer to the ACO and to the owner free vet care and food support for their cats as a way to get to know them and support their efforts for the cats.  

    I would try and work the situation from the source which is offering Vet support to the "owner" of the cats and to be as nonjudgemental as possible.  You want to become their friend and advocate.  Since you offer owned s/n services it should be able to work out.  

    Just my thoughts... 



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    Stacy LeBaron
    Head Cat
    The Community Cats Podcast
    Warren VT
    978-239-2090
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-13-2024 08:10 AM

    These folks are NOT affiliated with my organization-they are private individuals doing TNR in the community. My org assists with spay-neuter expense ONLY.



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    L.A Nesbitt
    President
    Pets In Need Action League
    Casa Grande, AZ 85130
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-13-2024 01:06 PM

    There are a few things I would look into:

    1. Animal Services policies involving "stray" or feral cats. Most "strays" must observe a "hold period" through animal services to allow time for the owner to reclaim before ownership is forfeited and any altering of the pet can be completed. This typically applies to all pets, regardless of licensing and/or microchipping.
    2. Potential for your TNR partner to be charged with theft of a pet.
    3. What language your organization has in the funding paperwork, if any, before releasing funds for spay/neuter as it relates to an owned pet versus a stray pet?

    The reply to this post to inform you of active TNR efforts could also be relayed to your TNR partners as a best practice. 



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    Michelle George
    Director of Community Animal CARE
    Companions and Animals for Reform and Equity
    GA
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 06-15-2024 09:44 AM

    I would have to agree that this can definitely be a difficult situation. We had a similar situation where an associate was doing TNR in a mobile home park and had taken a batch of younger cats that were not yet feral, were friendly and healthy. They were great candidates for adoption into loving and safe homes, instead of living outside in a mobile home park with various dangers. The owner and several other residents of the park wanted them out but the home they came from, which was also hoarding cats, wanted them to stay. Eventually they were able to be placed into adoption but there was a dispute similar to the one your describing.

    We just officially started our rescue in January, although we have been rescuing on our own for some time. We have learned that there are a lot of well-meaning people in the community that are unfortunately (and likely unknowingly) adding to the problems instead of solving them. We get calls all the time of people wanting to surrender liters of cats (usually between 6-8 months old) that they rescued as kittens. They usually didn't get them vetted at all but felt they were helping the kittens by getting them off the street. Unfortunately, they actually stole the best opportunity for them to get loving homes, as most people are looking to adopt kittens under 4 months.

    I think this is kind of similar where someone who is caring for them feels that they are better off in their known environment where they are feeding them. But if a cat/kitten is friendly and a good candidates for being adopted, I think it should get the chance to be in a loving, safe and comfortable home. I understand there is also the problem of space to keep them and the possibility to get euthanized due to lack of space, etc.  So I think it is hard to determine the best course of action in this particular situation without knowing all the details and nuances, but I think if someone is trying to take community cats that are good candidates for adoption off the streets and into homes, that is a really good thing that should be encouraged.



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    Jeffrey Boegli
    Secretary/Treasurer
    Kitty Rescue Corp
    New Port Richey, FL
    https://kittyrescuecorp.org
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 27 days ago

    A couple things that might help you make decisions:
    If the cat is friendly and well fed, he is taken care of. While sometimes we would like to get these cats off the street and into rescue, if the person feeding them is adamant about them staying, you run the real risk of them not allowing anymore TNR or rescue of kittens in the future if you remove that specific cat.
    If the cat is sickly or too skinny, that is another story.
    Our local HQHVSN clinic requires a signed form from the caregiver for all cats going into clinic. Not only a signed form, but they need to speak with the caregiver in advance, to ensure the trapper is bringing in the cats for who they say they are. This not only cuts down on random trapping of nontarget cats, but it also ensures there are caregivers caring for the cats. Of course this means there needs to also be community outreach so you can find out who all is feeding the cats. 
    We run across locations all the time where trappers trapped the cats, and then didn't bring them back because they either thought the home/caregiver wasn't "good enough" or kept cats because they were Siamese, or some other more desirable color pattern. Whenever that happens, the caregivers can get more cats and never let rescuers in again. 
    I would have a conversation with this known hoarder and see how you can help, that you are not the Pet Police, and you want to help. Go in with compassion and you may be able to lighten their load. Good luck.



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    Karen Jealous
    PDX Cat Trapper
    Portland OR
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 23 days ago

    YES! If a cat is friendly and healthy, someone is taking care of it. It can obviously vary by location but DC cat count found that only 1.5%  of "stray" cats in the city were actually stray cats that didn't belong to anyone and weren't being cared for by someone. 98% of the supposedly "stray" cats were associated with a human who was feeding them.

    The solution is to do door to door community outreach and get to know the people and pets who live in a neighborhood. See what they need help with and how you can help. The vast majority of people WANT their cats, indoor and outdoor, to be spayed/neutered. All you have to do is be nice, tell them what you can offer, and most importantly: always bring the cats back. Always.

    If you have random strangers going into random neighborhoods grabbing cats, you are simply perpetuating the idea that animal welfare and animal control are bad and should be avoided. And the people who need help the most will NOT come to you.



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    Maria Saucedo
    GIS Analyst
    Pets for Life at HSUS
    Baltimore, MD
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    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 21 days ago

    Maria,

    I agree. We work & help maintain "managed groups." We make contact with a Guardian/Care Giver to find out more about them. We like to have them participate in the process i.e. feeding in the trap only, transporting to & from the clinic( when possible). The majority of our Guardians are encouraged to keep at least one trap on hand. When a new member shows up, they call us. When get them scheduled for surgery. The cat is spayed/neutered,  ear-tipped,vaccinated & microchipped. This is has been a great time saver!  The Guardian is an active part of the process, and we have that by microchipping it keeps the cat safe from other people randomly trapping & relocating cats. In fact, we have found several cata that we being co-parented by another neighborhood feeder. The humans are now friends & they check back and forth with each other when one if their cat members are missing from their feeding starions.  It makes our job so much easier!



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    Michelle Robinson
    Cause 4Paws Gary,INC
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: TNR Dispute

    Posted 18 days ago

    Awesome information and responses. we just got a grant for seed money to adrees the free roaming cats in our town. I am grateful to see some of these pitfalls  mentioned as we are just in the planning phases.



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    Rochelle Hamp
    Executive Director
    Headwaters Animal Shelter
    MN
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    Original Message


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