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Refusing to return TNR cat

aine doley

aine doley08-22-2018 08:14 PM

  • 1.  Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 08-21-2018 02:15 PM

    Having an issue in Philly where a cat trapper is refusing to return a colony cat that needed an enucleation and is FIV+. She is refusing to even speak to him and insisting on send the cat to rescue. We believe he should be given the opportunity to adop the cat. Please give advice or any links to articles about this.


    #CommunityCatManagement
    #CommunityCats


  • 2.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 08-22-2018 08:14 PM

    Anybody? Anybody?


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 3.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 08-23-2018 03:30 PM

    Tagging some TNR experts to see if they can help!

     @Bryan Kortis @Julie Levy @Kate Do any of you have any suggestions or resources?


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 4.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 08-23-2018 03:59 PM

    I'd need a lot more info before I could offer any advice.  Who asked for the cat trapper's assistance?  Who decided to get veterinary help and who paid the bill?  What agreement, if any was there for the caretaker to help with the expenses? Was there a plan on what would happen with the cat post-medical care?  Sounds like the cat was in rough shape - how long had he been like that?  What are the circumstances of the colony - on the caretaker's property, elsewhere?  How long has the caretaker been feeding, how many cats, how many fixed, etc?  Need a lot more background.


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 5.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 08-24-2018 12:03 AM

    Thank you for tagging & getting a reply. I am going to circle back with the answers to these questions.


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 6.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 09-03-2018 01:04 PM

    Answers below :) TY.

    Who asked for the cat trapper's assistance?  

    There are two caretakers, a lady that cares for the colony overall. The second person is a man that had started feeding the cat with the eye problem. He is a nearby neighbor. He told his daughter about the cat + others that needed to be fixed. The daughter told another caretaker also int he same neighborhood about it. So, the man that wants to adopt the cat is the one that reached out, repeatedly over a few weeks time, texting and emailing. 

    Who decided to get veterinary help and who paid the bill?

    The male caretaker trapped the cat  and called for him to be picked up to go to the vet. There was an argument between our group and the trapper about this because she was refusing to bring to our local animal care and control facility. TNR surgery is free in Philly. There's also limited medical procedures that are done for TNR cats too, such as enucleations. She then went to her own vet and paid on her own + got really mad about doing that. Yet she chose that route.

    What agreement, if any was there for the caretaker to help with the expenses? 

    None. The person who transported the cat (a trapper, but didn't trap), is extremely anti-social unfortunately. 

    Was there a plan on what would happen with the cat post-medical care?  

    No. Things got messy fast with the trapper creating a group chat in which several local rescues instructed her on how to "steal" the cat.

    Sounds like the cat was in rough shape - how long had he been like that? 

    Not sure but we see this a lot. Once we get there to help we work on fixing it + going over what constitutes an emergency or which conditions need a vet sooner v. later. We think at least a few weeks that eventually led to the rupture. During that time he was calling and trying to get help. The main caretaker was not. That is kind of how he got involved.

    What are the circumstances of the colony - on the caretaker's property, elsewhere?

    They are on the other caretakers property but move about the block. This cat also feeds on the man caretakers porch. 

    How long has the caretaker been feeding, how many cats, how many fixed, etc?

    Not sure how long. None fixed. This is the primary caretaker, the lady, who we still don't know and is distrustful in general. No surprise considering stuff like this happens regularly.

     

    The man that initially reached out for help has one cat, a spayed female. He would like to adopt the one eye FIV+ guy and keep him indoors.  Our organization agreed to pay the "trapper" back for all expenses incurred if the cat is returned to be adopted.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 7.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 09-05-2018 07:23 PM

    Thanks for the detailed info. It does sound like the trapper (really the transporter) has no legal right to claim ownership of the cat and decide his future. Her only function was to transport at your organization's request.  She was essentially acting as your group's volunteer and the cat, while in her care, was in your organization's temporary custody.  The male caretaker, who had been feeding the cat, trapped him and requested your assistance, has a far stronger claim to ownership than the transporter.  Your organization, as the temporary custodian of the cat, also has a stronger claim to possession.

    What you do with your legal rights is of course up to you.  You could file a police report charging theft.  You could file a civil suit for "conversion" which is a fancy way of saying theft.  The transporter's online discussions about "stealing" the cat are evidence of intent to commit theft.  A possible alternative is to find or hire an attorney who would write a letter to the transporter explaining how she has violated the law and her potential liability for doing so.  Hopefully that would be enough for her to relent.  You could also speak to the veterinarian who treated the cat and explain the transporter had no legal right to make decisions about the cat's care and ask for his/her assistance to get her back.

    A great thing about the animal welfare community is the lack of litigation compared to other fields.  However, sometimes people abuse this custom, probably believing they are helping the animal and not fully realizing they're trampling on others.

    I hope this helps and all goes well for the cat and those who care for him.


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 8.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 09-05-2018 07:26 PM

    Don't know why the typos happened, but when you see "???????" in my response twice, the word missing is "??????????."


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 9.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 09-05-2018 07:26 PM

    Weird happened again (help Moderator!) Word is help.


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 10.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 09-06-2018 09:16 AM

    Sorry, Bryan. I've fixed the issue. It shouldn't happen again. The word was "assistance", right?


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 11.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 10-02-2018 06:04 PM

    ugh - messy!  doesn't it alter matters that the 'transporter' took the cat to her own vet, and paid for his care?


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 12.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 10-04-2018 02:11 PM

    No, ownership does not transfer without consent of the current owner or custodian. The transporter might have a claim for reimbursement of vet bills, if she was authorized to use her own vet, but that does not give her ownership of the cat.


    #CommunityCatManagement


  • 13.  RE: Refusing to return TNR cat

    Posted 10-01-2023 11:57 AM

    Hopefully whichever "rescue" group accepts the cat will see reason and either return him to your TNR program, or do a no-strings adoption to the man/caretaker who wants to adopt him for an indoor life!

    The transporter/trapper may have had a bad (deadly) experience with animal control euthanizing rather than enucleating a community cat?  Or maybe a partially-sighted community cat was put back outside and then hit by a car or killed by a dog.  I would assume a sad backstory of some sort has prompted her to go to such lengths on behalf of the cat.  

    Thanks for clearly sorting out the issues and relationships in this story, Bryan!



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